Victor is kind of annoying. He ignores his family for six years as he puts together the monster and stresses out about it. He cares more about his monster killing in general than about his brother's actual death. He uses the deaths to promote his hatred of the thing he created. I don't really feel sorry for Victor at all. If he had not been so obsessed with creating life, or if he had made friends who could convince him it was a bad idea, or if he had gone home for a visit and told his family about what he was doing, there wouldn't be an issue. I kind of feel sorry for the monster though whether that comes from the time I read the book nine years ago or from Young Frankenstein I can't tell. I currently feel that the monster just doesn't know what he/it is doing. It doesn't know it's own strength, doesn't understand how other people react to it, wants to relate to people but can't because it's so very different. Spoilerish if anyone cares... I'm in the middle of chapter 9 and I feel like the monster saw a pretty shiny thing, couldn't ask the boy if it could see it, went to take it, the boy struggled, the monster 'protected' itself, killed the boy, wandered around, saw a pretty girl in a hay loft and left her a present, left before she could freak out about him/it being a monster. I think it's Victor's fault for making the monster then freaking out about it without teaching it anything or trying to communicate with it. I don't think the monster's particularly evil. It just has a lack of social skills, in the extreme.
OK -- first thing that's bugging me is I can't figure out who you are! Please inform.... But I DID enjoy your comment. "He cares more about his moster killing in general than about his brother's actual death" was an interesting political/philosophical take which from your tone I'm assuming you disapprove of. In the abstract, he SHOULD be more concerned with the monster's continued/potential killing than about an individual death but humanly speaking, he seems a bit obsessed with his monster rather than devastated by his brother's death. He takes a brother's death and turns it into a selfish thing, makes it all about him and his creation.
I feel sorry for the monster too, even when he becomes more vindictive later in the novel. Precisely for the reason you give at the end -- Victor's a big ole girl for abandoning his creation (and I use that term sarcastically since a real woman would never do that! Anyone want to accuse me of using sexist language?) Anyway, Victor (and his buddy Walton) pursue individual achievement, knowledge and enlightenment to the exclusion of community. Victor SAYS he wants to kill the monster for the good of the community but I think by the end he's more heavily weighted by plain old macho vengeance (anyone else want to accuse me of sexism?)
Sorry, I be Margaret. Much thanks. I don't remember how I found it in the first place (the image), but apparently there's this person who makes art on hands. All sorts of things. I have no clue as to the website.
The monster does get rather vindictive, but I still feel there's the thing that if Victor had bothered to stay and teach it things when he first made it, there wouldn't be such issues. And if he hadn't been so proud he wouldn't have tried to make the monster pretty (which he failed at) and he therefore would not have been so upset at the dearth of beauty that the monster had.
I feel sympathetic towards both Victor and the monster. I mean, Victor clearly deserves what he gets while the monster does not. Victor created him on a whim without any idea of the consequences, and then tried to remove all responsibility from himself. The monster meanwhile only wants what every creature wants. To be meaninful. To be accepted. To be loved and free to love. But he is shunned from all because of his appearance, and ultimately becomes what they fear, seeing no other means of recourse.
But at the same time, Victor's not necessarily a bad guy. He's a young man over his head, caught up too much in scientific ambition and his own intelligence. His desires are noble. He doesn't want fame or power, at least not in the political controlling others sense. He merely wants to prove himself, to learn and see his knowledge bear fruit. Unfortunately, he realizes too late that the fruit he's working with is capable of thought and feeling. And, like the childlike person he is, he runs. Suddenly it's not just theory and what if. Suddenly it's real, and I can relate to that terror, of realizing that all of a sudden it actually matters what you do.
But Victor also said, at some point, that he wanted his creation(s) to feel indebted to him. Before he had actually created his monster, his plan was to make an entire race. He wanted a new group of creatures who owed their 'lives' to him. He was playing God not merely out of curiosity, but because he wanted the monsters to need him, to owe him. Sure, he didn't think it through and got scared, but he never thought about thinking it through. He accepted the fact that the monsters would feel, because he expected them to feel gratitude/an obligation to him. But he never considered other feelings they might have. He thought it partially through- to the extent that pleased him. He didn't follow his own thoughts through to see where they led him.
I think Esbee (don't you like using secret code names -- like no one knows who you really are!) hits on a very important and human experience -- the sudden realization that what you do matters (that can be a great experience or a horrible one depending on the consequencs but once it happens, I think we all become a little more cicumspect in our actions). MM and I's comment puts me in mind of ignorant (not stupid mind you) teenage girls who believe a very similar thing -- they will achieve status, power and love by having a child. They see only the positives and not the negatives. In fact, Victor behaves much like a bad teenage (or other age) mother, disillusioned and incapable of dealing with what he's wrought!
I don't exactly hate Victor, but I think he has a rather exasperating tendency to relate everything to himself in quite possibly the most selfish way possible, even though he clearly (to me) doesn't intend it that way. He's much busier freaking out over how he is supposedly guiltier than Justine in the murder of his brother (though, admittedly, I do understand why) than he is actually grieving for Justine and his brother.
In addition, he breaks his agreement with the monster to make him a girlfriend because he believes that he will be responsible for a new race of hideous "demons" terrorizing the world, never mind that the monster has promised that if he doesn't, he will take his revenge on Victor's loved ones. Can you tell that I think Victor should have just gone through with it?
I do feel a lot more sorry for the monster than I do for Victor, which is probably pretty obvious by now. Victor keeps going on about how the monster is trying to deceive him, but I honestly don't think the monster is quite intelligent enough for that, or of the right temperament. He really just wanted companionship, even if it was someone who would stay with him for lack of any other option. Since he couldn't get that from his creator, he decided to take the opposite path and take Victor's own loved ones away from him.
This has gotten rather rambly, so I should probably stop for now. Oh, this is Diana, by the way.
So what do you think of our friend Victor? Has he started to get on your nerves yet? Do you feel sorry for him? Or do you feel sorry for the monster?
8 comments:
Victor is kind of annoying. He ignores his family for six years as he puts together the monster and stresses out about it. He cares more about his monster killing in general than about his brother's actual death. He uses the deaths to promote his hatred of the thing he created. I don't really feel sorry for Victor at all. If he had not been so obsessed with creating life, or if he had made friends who could convince him it was a bad idea, or if he had gone home for a visit and told his family about what he was doing, there wouldn't be an issue. I kind of feel sorry for the monster though whether that comes from the time I read the book nine years ago or from Young Frankenstein I can't tell. I currently feel that the monster just doesn't know what he/it is doing. It doesn't know it's own strength, doesn't understand how other people react to it, wants to relate to people but can't because it's so very different.
Spoilerish if anyone cares...
I'm in the middle of chapter 9 and I feel like the monster saw a pretty shiny thing, couldn't ask the boy if it could see it, went to take it, the boy struggled, the monster 'protected' itself, killed the boy, wandered around, saw a pretty girl in a hay loft and left her a present, left before she could freak out about him/it being a monster. I think it's Victor's fault for making the monster then freaking out about it without teaching it anything or trying to communicate with it. I don't think the monster's particularly evil. It just has a lack of social skills, in the extreme.
OK -- first thing that's bugging me is I can't figure out who you are! Please inform....
But I DID enjoy your comment. "He cares more about his moster killing in general than about his brother's actual death" was an interesting political/philosophical take which from your tone I'm assuming you disapprove of. In the abstract, he SHOULD be more concerned with the monster's continued/potential killing than about an individual death but humanly speaking, he seems a bit obsessed with his monster rather than devastated by his brother's death. He takes a brother's death and turns it into a selfish thing, makes it all about him and his creation.
I feel sorry for the monster too, even when he becomes more vindictive later in the novel. Precisely for the reason you give at the end -- Victor's a big ole girl for abandoning his creation (and I use that term sarcastically since a real woman would never do that! Anyone want to accuse me of using sexist language?) Anyway, Victor (and his buddy Walton) pursue individual achievement, knowledge and enlightenment to the exclusion of community. Victor SAYS he wants to kill the monster for the good of the community but I think by the end he's more heavily weighted by plain old macho vengeance (anyone else want to accuse me of sexism?)
PS -- Love your graphic!
Sorry, I be Margaret. Much thanks. I don't remember how I found it in the first place (the image), but apparently there's this person who makes art on hands. All sorts of things. I have no clue as to the website.
The monster does get rather vindictive, but I still feel there's the thing that if Victor had bothered to stay and teach it things when he first made it, there wouldn't be such issues. And if he hadn't been so proud he wouldn't have tried to make the monster pretty (which he failed at) and he therefore would not have been so upset at the dearth of beauty that the monster had.
I feel sympathetic towards both Victor and the monster. I mean, Victor clearly deserves what he gets while the monster does not. Victor created him on a whim without any idea of the consequences, and then tried to remove all responsibility from himself. The monster meanwhile only wants what every creature wants. To be meaninful. To be accepted. To be loved and free to love. But he is shunned from all because of his appearance, and ultimately becomes what they fear, seeing no other means of recourse.
But at the same time, Victor's not necessarily a bad guy. He's a young man over his head, caught up too much in scientific ambition and his own intelligence. His desires are noble. He doesn't want fame or power, at least not in the political controlling others sense. He merely wants to prove himself, to learn and see his knowledge bear fruit. Unfortunately, he realizes too late that the fruit he's working with is capable of thought and feeling. And, like the childlike person he is, he runs. Suddenly it's not just theory and what if. Suddenly it's real, and I can relate to that terror, of realizing that all of a sudden it actually matters what you do.
But Victor also said, at some point, that he wanted his creation(s) to feel indebted to him. Before he had actually created his monster, his plan was to make an entire race. He wanted a new group of creatures who owed their 'lives' to him.
He was playing God not merely out of curiosity, but because he wanted the monsters to need him, to owe him.
Sure, he didn't think it through and got scared, but he never thought about thinking it through. He accepted the fact that the monsters would feel, because he expected them to feel gratitude/an obligation to him. But he never considered other feelings they might have.
He thought it partially through- to the extent that pleased him. He didn't follow his own thoughts through to see where they led him.
I think Esbee (don't you like using secret code names -- like no one knows who you really are!) hits on a very important and human experience -- the sudden realization that what you do matters (that can be a great experience or a horrible one depending on the consequencs but once it happens, I think we all become a little more cicumspect in our actions). MM and I's comment puts me in mind of ignorant (not stupid mind you) teenage girls who believe a very similar thing -- they will achieve status, power and love by having a child. They see only the positives and not the negatives. In fact, Victor behaves much like a bad teenage (or other age) mother, disillusioned and incapable of dealing with what he's wrought!
I don't exactly hate Victor, but I think he has a rather exasperating tendency to relate everything to himself in quite possibly the most selfish way possible, even though he clearly (to me) doesn't intend it that way. He's much busier freaking out over how he is supposedly guiltier than Justine in the murder of his brother (though, admittedly, I do understand why) than he is actually grieving for Justine and his brother.
In addition, he breaks his agreement with the monster to make him a girlfriend because he believes that he will be responsible for a new race of hideous "demons" terrorizing the world, never mind that the monster has promised that if he doesn't, he will take his revenge on Victor's loved ones. Can you tell that I think Victor should have just gone through with it?
I do feel a lot more sorry for the monster than I do for Victor, which is probably pretty obvious by now. Victor keeps going on about how the monster is trying to deceive him, but I honestly don't think the monster is quite intelligent enough for that, or of the right temperament. He really just wanted companionship, even if it was someone who would stay with him for lack of any other option. Since he couldn't get that from his creator, he decided to take the opposite path and take Victor's own loved ones away from him.
This has gotten rather rambly, so I should probably stop for now. Oh, this is Diana, by the way.
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